Thoughts on the allegory of Adam and Eve and the Fall

Disclaimer: I don't know anything and I already know that.


When God said, "Don't eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil," what he really said was, "Don't choose fear.".

The fallen one tried to get Adam to fear, but Adam wouldn't listen, so the fallen one tried to get Eve to fear. He found a way in, and Eve shared that fear with Adam. Perhaps she started a fight with him.

Then God returned and they couldn't bear to be in his presence because they had partaken of fear and anger. That made the Light and Love impossible to bear, so they had to leave to continue to exist.

And their children were born to parents who had learned to fear, and who had learned to be angry. And the fallen ones capitalized on that to create as much pain and mayhem and fear as they could get away with in all of the generations since Eva and Adam.

As far as the first clothing goes, I've heard the theory that Eve and Adam were clothed in Light until they "ate the fruit" - then that Light left and they had no covering to protect them, so God made clothing that would work in a pinch, but wasn't as good as what they had before.

Why, then, do the scriptures say the man and the woman were naked but not ashamed? Maybe because they didn't wear clothing like we do, but were clothed in Light.

What about Eve/the scriptures saying Adam and Eve would have had no children? It's possible they were in training and, at some point, the Gods would have taught them how to combat fear with love, then they would have gone prepared to the dark spot in the garden (see below).

Why were fallen ones allowed to roam the garden? I'm sure I do not know . . . but what if they were only confined to one area? What if they were confined to the spooky old house and yard in a certain part of the garden that was majorly creepy to anyone who knew what fear was? What if the Gods said to stay away from that creepy place? (After all, the fallen ones were kicked out onto the same planet. Maybe they demanded a place next to Adam and Eve's house. Far enough away to not overpower them unawares, but close enough to entice them because . . . well, I guess life is about choices. And, besides that, this planet was their turf.)

Adam wasn't interested in the spooky old house, but EVe wondered what it was, so crossed over the boundaries to explore it. In that case, the fallen ones had a chance to put fear and anger into her heart and mind.

And, since it's an allegory, what if the Gods were Eve and Adam's parents (two couples) who had survived a global disaster, and had reached a spiritual level so high that they were, in reality, Gods?

Just wondering. It makes for an interesting story, to be sure.

Our Compassionate God

Recently, I was staying in a hotel in Boise, Idaho with a friend. Our room was directly across from the guests' laundry room. On one side of our room were the stairs. On the other was the room of the ladies who had given me a ride to Boise. Sunday morning, my friend left to go home (had pressing business that prevented her from staying the full weekend). That afternoon, the ladies and I were going to meet some people for lunch.

I was in my room, pretty much killing time, when I heard what seemed like a year old baby throwing a fit. I didn't hear adults and supposed they were ignoring the child. A few minutes later, I opened my door to go out and right next to the door, pressed into it, was a two year old toddler, screaming and crying hysterically. I glanced into the laundry room as I picked her up. It was empty. I had felt incredible compassion for the child the moment I'd opened the door, and I told her, "We'll find your mom." She stopped being hysterical, but was still upset. I knocked on the ladies' door, and when I did, the toddler calmed down even more. When the door was opened, I explained what had happened and that I was going to take the child to the office (front desk) to see if they could find her mom. The ladies went with me downstairs and, on the elevator ride, one of them coaxed out of the child that she was two years old (she never spoke the whole time she was with us).

When we got to the front desk, I explained what had happened, and told them it was on the second floor. One of the ladies behind the desk came around and held her arms out to the child. The child hesitated for a nano-second. You could see her deciding if she could trust this person. Then she leaned over and reached out to the lady.

After we got back from lunch, we inquired at the front desk. Was the mom found? The man there had just begun his shift not long before. He said he had not seen the child, but had heard others talking about the incident, and, yes, the mom had been found.

Later that evening, I was talking to God, and he told me, "The child is a sign to you." He told me that the compassion I'd felt for the child was the same compassion he felt for me when I was hysterically scream-crying out to him because of being homeless (or threatened with it), not having enough food to eat, worried about other problems, or just plain having a freak-out attack for no reason that I knew of. He also let me know that just as I had taken immediate steps to solve the toddler's problem when I realized what was happening, so he, also, took steps to alleviate my suffering when I was freaking out.

I am sharing this experience because he told me to. He told me that this compassion he feels toward me is the same compassion he feels toward everyone. Our sincere prayers are always heard, even if we don't see immediate results.

Second Coming is Real

Okay, lame title. I couldn't think of a better one.

I think the words below from a true messenger of God bears repeating. This stuff is real. Jesus is real. He is really going to come. From here on out, in the world, it will be less and less fun.

The Lord's return is always a subject He wants us to keep in mind. All the latter-day events that will mark the time for His return will happen in a single generation. (D&C 45:30; JS-M 1:34.) Therefore, when that generation begins to witness the signs of His coming, they should prepare so the return of the Master does not find them abusing others. (Matt. 24:44-51; JS-Matt. 1:49-55.)
. . . 
I am sent as another witness to testify He will return. Signs have been, and are being given both in the heavens and on earth.
. . . 
He has authorized baptism as His own covenant to preserve all who receive it. I have seen His return and I know this newly offered baptism will be respected at His return by those who will return with Him. Baptism is offered as a covenant between you and the Lord. There are no institutional demands made upon you as a result of receiving the ordinance. It is an invitation to renew your relationship with Christ and take an act of faith to show Him you keep Him in your heart.
. . . 
Every nation, kindred, tongue and people, black and white, male and female, young and old, are invited to be baptized. There is no charge, and you make no commitment to men. You only covenant to follow Christ.

He is aligning events to complete His work, and the signs of His return are being given to this generation. The time will soon come when it will not be possible to receive this invitation any longer. Do not procrastinate the day of your repentance.
denversnuffer.com/2015/12/come-unto-christ/

How long is a generation? I don't know that God counts it in years. Speaking of only one genealogical line, I had two generations in Nauvoo: Shadrach and Lorenzo Wesley Roundy. Then, there was Joel Jesse, Sarah Elizabeth, then my mother. Counting from Nauvoo, I am the 4th and 5th generation. (LW-JJ=1 JJ-SE=2 SE-Mom=3 Mom-me=4) 

How to translate that into now, I don't know, but if we take the year the "saints" were kicked out of Nauvoo and subtract it from 2015, then divide it by 4 (generations), we may come up with a general ball park number. However, the time when "it will not be possible to receive this invitation any longer" will probably be sooner than that. If the Book of Mormon is any indication, there comes a time when people cannot repent (because of their mindsets).  They are "past feeling."

I don't know about you, but the possible fact that Jesus could return as early as 40 years from now gives me cause for concern. Who will be ready? Will I? But my concern is more for my loved ones. My children, my siblings and their families, my cousins and other relatives, my friends and acquaintances, even those who seem to be enemies of some sort. 

Would to God that all people might repent, turn to Christ, and follow Him. 
Why must we suffer? 
Why must we harden our hearts? 
Why must we hurt each other? 
Why must we live in fear, anger, vengeance, and contention? 

Let us lift up our hearts together. 
Let us unite in love! 
Let us cease contending. 
Let us cease lifting up ourselves or others on pedestals as one(s) to be heeded above others. 
Let us humbly turn to our Lord, Jesus Christ. 
Let us see ourselves for the fools we really are. 

Holy, holy, holy is the most High - for it is by His grace and His grace alone that we are saved, not by any act of ourselves. 

We may repent, we may accept His awesome grace and incredible mercy, but it is He who has trodden the winepress alone. It is He who has opened the door to our salvation and peace. With all my heart and mind, I throw out into the "ethers" the invitation to come unto Christ, and to be one with Him. Amen.

A Purpose of Trials and Sacrifices

These are some thoughts I had this morning. That doesn't mean I really know what I'm talking about. I do think, though, that this conclusion was a result of pondering about "Goliaths" evaporating once we learn to choose faith in regards to them.

We are here to learn faith in Christ.

As we learn a little faith, he gives us a little more - to push our faith forward.

The trials we have and the sacrifices he asks, including the huge sacrifice at the supposed end is just another step in learning faith and in learning to trust him.

It is for our benefit, so that -eventually- we have the faith to be self-existent. Faith to attain to the resurrection of the dead (in other words, not dependent upon a God to resurrect us - but, instead, we can resurrect those who depend upon us).

On Trials and Challenges - part 2

The last post was so dang long that I didn't want to make it longer.

Continuing the idea, though, when the car began to act up, it was difficult to continue believing (not that I was that good at it in the first place - I had simply agreed to do what God had suggested.)

 I was facing my troubles and trials, as I said at the beginning of the last post. It was so painful to come face to face with so many things I could not control and/or feared. This morning, I was lead to read a few pages in The Second Comforter.

Pages 74-75:

How we perceive our challenges determines how we meet them. If we see God as the overriding influence in life's challenges, then we can trust God to help us through them. ... the dilemma is never merely physical. It is always a battle between faith and skepticism. Do you see it as a fight between your own willingness to trust God to deliver you ...?  Does God care about your life's dilemmas? Will He help deliver you from your 'Goliaths?' Do you trust Him? Do you believe in Him? Do you believe He is interested and involved in your life? Will you accept the proof of His involvement as His word to you? Do you feel His proofs are not sufficient or substantial enough to have faith in them?

Faith in a distant and unconcerned God may satisfy some .... But that is not the God Nephi (or David) believed in. In Nephi's example we find a personal God involved in everyday life. We find a God who will give a challenge to us, and then walk beside us to see we succeed. Nephi is trying to teach us this is the way God operates in all of our lives. He is not distant. He is a part of each of our daily lives. We can ignore Him, or acknowledge Him. But whether we accept or reject His involvement, Nephi's view is that He is present and concerned.

If you want to have an audience with God, you must first be willing to see God as someone who does have personal, direct and onging involvement with each of our lives. You must accept Him as someone who cares enough about you that He will help you accomplish His commandments. You must be willing to accept the forms of communication He uses to facilitate this.

This example of Nephi's is not limited to retrieving a book from a hostile cousin. It should apply to any of life's challenges. ... That is how you need to see the challenges you have. No Goliath in your life will destroy you. Rather, God will destroy the Goliaths for you.

In the end, Goliaths are merely opportunities for you to demonstrate your faith. They will be swept away when they no longer serve any purpose. They are there only temporarily to provide you with an opportunity to demonstrate faith.

As I thought on this, pondered on it, it seemed to me that what I was seeing were a) my obstacles (see the questions in the first quoted paragraph) and b) that all of these troubles would evaporate once I had learned to have faith in God. They are only there to teach me to trust God. Once I learn that, they will cease to exist.

That trust, that unconditional trust is what I crave. It is what I am attempting to grasp and incorporate into my being. I hope God is truly long-suffering and patient because it looks, to me, like an exceedingly long road before I can answer any of the questions in the affirmative, let alone have enough trust and faith in him to allow my present tribulations and challenges to evaporate.

On Trials and Challenges

 Challenges

So, I had a challenge that broke me, having to do with my car which I desperately need (it still runs, but has me concerned that it may stop running). It was the proverbial straw.

I was sitting at the computer a few nights ago, reading forums and skype, when I felt the Lord telling me to come talk to him. I procrastinated until too close to bedtime to say much before I slept. But I did talk to him the next morning, extensively.

Last night, I got the same "feeling" and got off the computer much earlier.

(As a side note, recently (before the experience(s) I am currently relating), I prayed all night. I began around 10 or 11 p.m. At one point, said I had to sleep, but felt compelled to continue. When I noticed light coming through the blinds, I checked the time. It was just after 6 a.m. It was difficult to believe that much time had passed.)

The reason I procrastinated talking to him was because I didn't want to face what was tormenting me. I felt I would totally break with reality if I had to look at everything all at once, and I knew that's what I would be doing if I talked to him.

 The car was and is only one of many issues that have been tormenting me. It's easier not to break when you pretend nothing is there.

I looked it all square in the face as I talked to him. I admitted that I did not know how to fix any of it. Like the proverbial child who doesn't know and knows that he doesn't know. That was me.

Do This

A few months ago, I dabbled with the idea of going back to college. Just for fun. Well, I began the process. Somewhere along the line I decided I ought to go for a bachelors degree (I already have an associates degree).

Also, somewhere along the line, I talked to God about it. He told me he wanted me to go. He didn't care what classes I took; he simply wanted me to go and take what I really wanted to take. I wasn't sure what to make of it.

Then I read some words on this post that went into my mind - as if it possibly applied to me. The author was quoting someone else.

Everyone faces the identical challenge.  It seems different only because of our individual strengths and weaknesses.  The challenge is adapted to our own personality, capacity and life's history. Therefore, when you are asked to overcome something, it will fit in the framework of your life.

All are asked to make a sacrifice that shows they will not withhold anything from the Lord.  It will come to each person based on what they value and would regret to their core surrendering.  Whatever that is, you will be asked by the Lord to give it to Him.  You must decide to do that when asked.

All are asked to do something that they view as wrong, evil or inappropriate and will seem to be inconsistent with the Lord's mercy, righteousness and perfection.  The request will unmistakably come from Him.  You cannot evade the request because you doubt He is asking.  You will clearly know it is Him who asks, and that to all your understanding it will be wrong to do.  You must do it anyway.

All are asked to take a step in faith beyond where they are at the time.  Trust in Him, and only Him, as you take that step.  You will be certain that if it were something you were undertaking on your own, it could not be accomplished.  But because you are doing as He has asked, you know you will have the strength or support to do as He bids.

I could not see how it could fit what the Lord had asked me (college). I went through the points with God to see what was really being said:

First: “The challenge is adapted to our own personality, capacity and life's history. Therefore, when you are asked to overcome something, it will fit in the framework of your life.”

Second: “You will not withhold anything from the Lord. It is something you will regret to your core surrendering.” I know of nothing that would fit this. I have lost so much in the last 20-30 years, that anything else I lose would probably freak me out or give me a nervous breakdown, but I cannot see how I could not stop it from happening.

Third: “Whatever that is, you will be asked by the Lord to give it to Him. You must decide to do that when asked.”

Fourth: “All are asked to do something that they view as wrong, evil or inappropriate and will seem to be inconsistent with the Lord's mercy, righteousness and perfection.”

Fifth: “The request will unmistakably come from Him. You cannot evade the request because you doubt He is asking.”

And, sixth: “All are asked to take a step in faith beyond where they are at the time.  Trust in Him, and only Him, as you take that step. You will be certain that if it were something you were undertaking on your own, it could not be accomplished.”

1st: Well, it is certainly adapted to my personality, capacity, and life's history.

2nd, I've already commented on.

3rd: He did ask and I did say yes and am in the process of doing that.

4th: Here, I balked. "Lord, you know this is not evil or bad or wrong. It isn't against any scriptural law that I know of."

"Look at it closely," he said, "and tell me what you think of you doing this."

I looked at it, and I said, "Of course, it's wrong for me to go to college. Of course, it's a sin for me to pursue subjects that I have wanted to learn from my core since I was a child, because I'm not supposed to have what I want. I'm not supposed to do what I love. It's a sin - but for me, not for anyone else."

And as I kept attempting to explain, I saw that I was going in a frustrated circle. He was right. My core self believes it is the height of evil for me to do anything I would like, anything that would bring me joy and fulfillment. It's okay for others to pursue lives and careers that speak to their souls, but not for me.

We finally settled on agreeing to disagree because I was confusing myself.

5th: Even though it was quiet, even though it was simple, I was absolutely sure I was talking to the Lord.

6th: Absolutely, I could not accomplish this on my own. Not only financially (tuition, fees, books, rent and other bills, and so on), but the thing, itself. As I faced the thing square on, I saw insecurities about failing.

I finally saw that what I was supposed to do is simply give it my best, as I enjoyed it. Enjoy the journey. ("Who is this, really? God is supposed to make us do all sorts of painful sacrifices. He's supposed to make us miserable, even unto death, because that's what this life is for: suffering and sacrifice and pain.")

Knowing who the Lord Really Is

So, I was talking to him about this. Talking about the sacrifices, the ones that hurt, the ones that Brother Snuffer and others talk about.

He said to me, "I'm not going to do that to you yet. First, you have to know me enough to trust me. After you know me, then I can ask you to do other things. For now, we are working on you knowing who I really am and trusting me."

The understanding that accompanied that was seeing that I did not know his personality. I did not know him as a friend or a father. This needed to come first. And, as I recall, this message that I needed to learn to trust him, needed to learn to see and feel and believe his love for me came after the thing I wrote below.

#

That's the end of the post. However, below, I'm going to relate our conversation about point 4 in more detail for those who may be interested (I wrote it down soon afterward and this is a quote from what I wrote). Feel absolutely free to ignore it. [Brackets are my current insertions.]

The bit about God wanting you to do something "wrong" - well, I can't believe it but every time I don't, I'm immediately faced with my own deep conviction that - for me - it is wrong, it is a huge sin.

And I wondered why God would choose such a strange sacrifice for me. And I thought maybe God was using it to cause me to further trust him for food and such. And to trust him in general. And it was brought to my mind the time I did testing at workforce (in St. George - when my kids were ages 5/6, 8 & 10). the lady who told me my test results apologized that the IQ test only went to 126. I had surpassed that. They couldn't measure what it really was (one I'd taken a few years earlier averaged me at 144 - with the "logic" aspect being something like 168). [Note: I could have inflated that. It could have been 142 and 162 or 164.] She had noticed that I had finished the sections before others in the room (which would add points). She told me I could be anything, even a medical doctor. That experience is what came to my mind as I doubted my ability to take the languages. And I wondered why God would encourage me in such a secular thing. [The classes I signed up for are Chinese, French, and Spanish, as far as languages go.]

Isn't my job here to suffer, be miserable, never get what I really want? That's about the time the thought of "In contraries is truth made manifest" [came].

I mean, if I['m] going to go through the crap and emerge on the other side safe and whole, then there's got to be the possibility that the other side exists, right?

And, it's such a personal journey.

But I find myself suspicious. "Are you sure this is God? The devil is the one who tells us to do things we like," etc - etc.

So, you believe the devil gives you good things and I give you bad? was the gist of the reply.

And I have to admit that the answer is yes. I have learned exactly that. God gives homelessness, fear, hunger, poverty, pain, persecution, blocks any chance of having a creative outlet or doing what one loves.

It is the devil who says you should follow your dreams and desires, pursue your interests, who offers to you to never go hungry and so forth. (Not that he always delivers.)

Isn't that backwards, the "voice" [in my mind -not actually audible words] asks gently. Why would God/I give you talents and abilities only to have you sacrifice them?

Because you're a God who requires sacrifice of everything we like, of everything that makes us comfortable (food, clothing, house, safety, etc.).

True, but haven't you been doing that all along? Haven't you been suffering your whole life? Don't you think it's finally time you rested from that and learned what your soul craves (French, for example), and finally opened up to letting me provide abundantly for you - so much so that you can help others?

Me: This is really the devil I'm talking to, isn't it? Only the devil would pretend to offer me food ... [etc.].

So, you think that if you ask me bread, I'll give you a stone?

No, I think that when I have asked you for bread in the past, you have given me poison. When I've asked for a fish, you've given me worse than a fiery, poisonous serpent.

It isn't what I'd want to say to a God, but I must be honest in my perception of you.

Then why follow me? Why seek me out?

Because it's in my soul to do so. It is in my nature to  [pause] - oh.

(Smiles) [Meaning he smiled]

In my soul to seek you. In my soul to learn languages. In my soul to heal. In my soul to live with the earth, in nature, in "my" home.

I'm confused now.

You were always confused, my dear. How about you do an experiment? (I love experiments - behavioral ones, especially ...)

Just for this school year, you trust me. Maybe for two school years and one summer. You do what I say, which is to do this great "sin" of going after your dream of being a linguist - Let go and go for it.

Just for these next two years, assume (the real meaning, not the ass meaning) that I'm there for you, that I will provide for you and protect you. Sins, all, in your estimation. Do that for me, okay? (okay?)

That's a strange sacrifice you're asking of me.

It's a strange set of beliefs you carry.

Me, again: Okay. It makes no sense to me why you should ask me to do this "sin" which is only a sin to/for me. This whole thing is weird - But, okay, for you I'll do it.

[Turning attention heavenward] And, dear God, the Real God of heaven and earth, if I've been talking to the devil this whole time, please step in. I don't want to be happy if you want me miserable. I don't want to be well-nourished and in a home/land that nourishe[s] both  body and soul if you want me to be hungry, under-nourished, and either homeless or living away from nature.

God: Sigh

. . . 

So there you have it. I'm breaking out of a cycle - A cycle of misery and woe and hunger and homelessness and attracting predators and not learning/doing what is in my soul to do.

My "sacrifice" is to let God pull me out of hell and protect me and let me (make the way for me to) do what is in my soul to do.

What will happen? I'm sure I do not know. If the past indicates the future, I'll give up. I'll pull out. I'll continue the cycle of lack and misery.

The reason I post this personal stuff is because there may be another "loser" out there whose life seems to have given them the same message. Perhaps God wants to pull you out of misery if you could only learn to trust him.

If there is someone like that who reads this, I hope for your sake that I succeed - so that you can see that you, also, can succeed.

Helaman 3:27-30

Thus we may see that the Lord is merciful unto all who will, in the sincerity of their hearts, call upon his holy name. Yea, thus we see that the gate of heaven is open unto all, even to those who will believe on the name of Jesus Christ, who is the Son of God. Yea, we see that whosoever will may lay hold upon the word of God, which is quick and powerful, which shall divide asunder all the cunning and the snares and the wiles of the devil, and lead the man of Christ in a strait and narrow course across that everlasting gulf of misery which is prepared to engulf the wicked— And land their souls, yea, their immortal souls, at the right hand of God in the kingdom of heaven, to sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and with Jacob, and with all our holy fathers, to go no more out.

Anyone can lay hold on the word of God, not just members of a certain sect (LDS, FLDS, RLDS, JW, SDA, etc.).

The word of God is quick and powerful.

The word of God cuts to bits all the tricks, lies, deceits, traps, and so forth that the devil throws out.

The word of God leads the (hu)man who follows Christ in a strait and narrow course. Rather like a guide who leads people through a forest, because he knows the right trails to follow.

Across that everlasting gulf of misery which is prepared to engulf the wicked. This shows my bias towards mortality, but I look at this and see that this mortality touches everlasting on the one side and everlasting on the other. It, being in time, is in the middle.

And is it not a place where the most wicked dwell? Does it not engulf the wicked? Are we not swallowed up in the cares of the world, in perversions, greed, fear, lust for power and money, lust for bodies to play with, the need to survive, and so forth? Are we not all wicked to some degree or other?

To land with the Gods (why does this remind me of fishing? He landed the fish).

To go no more out. What? So, if God makes lots of eternal rounds in an effort to save his children, does this mean that if we follow Christ and don't veer off the path, we don't have to come back to another round? We can be with the Gods? We can be on that upper rung of Jacob's ladder? We don't have to come down into a mortal hell ever again? Sounds enticing to me.

Let's do it. Let's follow Christ and let him lead us safely out of this vale of tears and pain. Let us not allow the cares of this world, the fears of this world, the lusts of this world to distract us from our task of escaping this stuff.

The End

In March, 1974, a teacher's ministry began. In April 2014, that ministry continued, but changed drastically as far as outward appearances.

40 years from baptism to casting out - Sept 2013
40 years from beginning of ministry to end of either it or of the first phase of it - March 2024

This, below, was brought to my attention by "briznian" so I am quoting it. I find it key to the quotes below.

I've thought about that chapter [the chapter of scripture quoted below] for many months. Those three are the last of the quorum who deposed Eldred Smith and the office of Patriarch to the Church. While they live, they have the power to rectify the situation. After they are gone it will require a restoration for the office to return.

As much as I love those three, it pains me to watch as all this unfolds. I have figured for some time that it was Perry who would go first, then Packer ... and finally Monson. That way there will only one changing of the Presidency. Because both Packer [and] Monson have looked so feeble nobody will connect Zechariah 11 saying it was just coincidence. Then Elder Nelson will ascend to the Presidency. Elder Hales hasn't looked well for some time and supposedly Elder Scott is ill too. It's conceivable that five of the fifteen could be replaced in the next year. I figure that they will be replaced with churchmen like Elder Clayton (Google his involvement in high profile excommunications) and Elder Rasband who supposedly lives in DS' stake and was involved in getting DS exxed.

All this will come during the announcement by the SCOTUS that gay marriage will be the law of the land. We will then shortly see it in the church.

I hope I'm wrong.

 Combine that with this:

[L. Tom Perry's] passing will mark another milestone in the loss of leaders who were there when I first joined the LDS Church. The only ones remaining now in leadership who were there at the beginning are Thomas S. Monson, Boyd K. Packer and L. Tom Perry.

I wish him and his family well. It saddens me to see him depart.
from here

And this. I am quoting the chapter in its entirety, but highlighting a few spots for tl;dr people (too long, didn't read).

Zechariah, Chapter 11

1  OPEN thy doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour thy cedars.

2  Howl, fir tree; for the cedar is fallen; because the mighty are spoiled: howl, O ye oaks of Bashan; for the forest of the vintage is come down.

3  ¶ There is a voice of the howling of the shepherds; for their glory is spoiled: a voice of the roaring of young lions; for the pride of Jordan is spoiled.

4  Thus saith the LORD my God; Feed the flock of the slaughter;

5  Whose possessors slay them, and hold themselves not guilty: and they that sell them say, Blessed be the LORD; for I am rich: and their own shepherds pity them not.

6  For I will no more pity the inhabitants of the land, saith the LORD: but, lo, I will deliver the men every one into his neighbour's hand, and into the hand of his king: and they shall smite the land, and out of their hand I will not deliver them.

7  And I will feed the flock of slaughter, even you, O poor of the flock.  And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock.

8  Three shepherds also I cut off in one month; and my soul lothed them, and their soul also abhorred me.

9  Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another.

10  ¶ And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it assunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.

11  And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it was the word of the LORD.

12  And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear.  So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.

13  And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them.  And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.

14  Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

15  ¶ And the LORD said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd.

16  For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces.

17  Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock!  the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.

Babylon
Wednesday, February 18, 2015

The God of Heaven tells me all the world should pray that Baghdad does not fall.

Lamentation for Baghdad
May 28, 2015

Days of distress are upon Baghdad and the days of their troubles are begun. Distress shall overtake them, for those who come shall have no pity.

During the next nine years, we will see things happen in the LDS Church (and probably in all of the factions that claim to be the "true" doctrinal and authoritative descendants of Joseph Smith Jr). A cry for repentance, coming from the Lord as He tears things apart, as He preaches His own sermons.

After those nine years (March 2024), what will happen then?

If the Gentiles (called Gentiles even if there happen to be drops of rebellious Ephraimite blood in them) have taken advantage of the calamities and destructions and have repented, it will be well with them. They will be numbered among the house of Israel.

If not, they will be destroyed and trodden under foot.

How long after March 2024 will that take? I don't know.

Am I a true "prophet" or a false one?

I don't know.

All I know is that we are in great spiritual and physical danger. As goes the world, so goes the Church.

 We cry, "All is well," and bury our heads in the sand to our detriment and to our future horror and agony.

Repent and come unto Christ. Lean upon Him and no other. Be baptized by one having authority (rather than by one merely commissioned in a dead Church). Join no formal organization.

Keep your current religion if you wish (LDS, FLDS, Community of Christ, Buddhist, Islamic, Catholic, Episcopalian, Baptist, Pagan, New Age, and so on and so forth).

The Lord's church consists of those who repent, come unto Him, and are baptized. That is His doctrine. There is no doctrine but this, which is encapsulated in the words, "Come unto me."

The Book of Mormon is extremely helpful in this journey, but a belief in the literalness of it as a history doesn't seem to be a requirement.

Random Thoughts on Covenants and Birth

This morning, as I was praying and trying to sort out my mind in an effort to stop following darkness (the sins are sins of thought), rather randomly Denver Snuffer's comments in his latest (temple) fireside came to my mind in conjunction with my first baby.

First, this is what he said (1:15:24-1:16:07): "And I can tell you that covenants traditionally involve cutting - And covenants in the Old Testament involve the shedding of blood - And covenants with our Lord at some point, in some contexts, with some reaches, require that we suffer."

[sidenote: In pioneer times, the marks cut into a person's clothing were not sewn on.]

He was in the midst of speaking of his own suffering, of operations performed that involved the flesh being cut, as well as blood being shed.

When I was pregnant for the tirst time, I decided this was my "tithing child". This was the child I would dedicate to the Lord, according to the law of sacrifice in the Old Testament (as I understand it).

According to the Bible:

(As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord
(New Testament | Luke 2:23)

 My child ended up being female. In fact, some months before she was born, she emphatically told me, "Don't call me a boy!" In my mind and heart, though, I did not waver in devoting her to the Lord. I'm sure I broke some ancient Jewish law because I was female and I was offering up my child as a covenant to God, and the child ended up being female. I didn't even know there would be a "God's part" to this gift, to this covenant. As far as I know, there is none.

She was a home birth-turned-c-section. Because I did not feel safe where I was laboring (for reasons I won't go into here), my body would not let her out, so we went to the hospital after many hours. She was breech. Had the medical community not been fearful (or is that "terrified") of delivering a breech naturally, she would have been born vaginally, because as soon as we got to the hospital my body started pushing her out.

In any case, she was a c-section. A cesarean. That means they cut open my belly. They sliced open my skin, then my muscles, and then my uterus, then they pulled her out through the cuts. I was awake for this but did not have to watch it, thank goodness.

My firstborn, offered as a "living sacrifice" to God, was offered via the cutting of the person who gave the gift. (The child, herself, seemed to have no problem with this. They showed her to me right after they pulled her out. She was checking things out, looking at this new place she was in to see what it was like. We had an incredible link from the beginning, which diminished the more she let go of the spiritual world, the more she became incorporated into this world.)

It involved cutting. It involved hellish pain, the likes of which I had never experienced before (physically), and never have since (I gave birth vaginally twice after, with a painkiller for about an hour for my middle child, no painkiller for the last child). It involved hellish pain after, because I did not want to bother the nurses and waited too long to ask for a painkiller after I was in my room. By the time I was hurting, it was the shift change and they could not give me a painkiller until they were through giving reports to the new shift. By then, I was in agony again, a fiery agony this time.

I almost did not have my next baby. I believed to my core that God hated women, or that He had a particular grudge against me, personally. The lie that a woman forgets the pain and "it is all worth it" came up in my face at least once by a well-meaning woman who had obviously experienced this forgetting. Even now, I have not forgotten that hell. But I still dedicated the child to God.

And I decided that I needed to give God a chance to prove that He did not hate me, that He did not hate women, and I let myself get pregnant again to see what He would do, if anything. (This took a great deal of courage. Also, I had gathered my children around me when I was about to be married and told them to prepare to be born, so I felt a commitment to have these children. Three - two girls and a boy - had gathered close to me, and one boy was farther off, who I have not had yet. Though God gave Isaac to Sarah at 99 years old, I do not know if God will give such a gift to this son and myself. I have nearly 45 years to see, though. *smilie*)

It was illegal in my state for a midwife to attend a post-cesarean mother, hence home birth was out of the question (I had not heard of freebirth at the time). I ended up going to Utah. Salt Lake City, actually, where I ended up with the most incredible doctor (Dr. Pease) and a very good hospital (Holy Cross Hospital between North and South Temple and between 10th and 11th East). There was no question in my mind that I'd have a vaginal birth. The cut I'd had was the kind that allows a "trial" labor, but I innocently ignored the word "try".

I did not know I was "supposed" to rip apart. I had no clue that I was "supposed" to explode inside. Neither the woman who pulled out my oldest daughter nor Dr. Pease gave me a reason to fear. The second labor was less than three hours from start to finish. Had someone been there who would have told me that my feelings of "I can't do this," was a sign that the baby was about ready to be pushed into the world and to hang in there at least 15 more minutes, I would not have asked for a painkiller, and the pushing stage would have been 1/2 an hour instead of one hour. (They warned me that the painkiller might not take effect until after the baby had been born, but I did not recognize that as a statement that the baby was about to be born.)

I was also surprised at the rest between contractions at the beginning. My last experience had been one long pain that was somewhat tolerable at the beginning turning into something so bad long before the 13 hours were over that it was more than I could endure. (I was very uncomfortable with how this was worded before. It was true, but it "felt" like it was offensive or uncomfortable to someone.)

I recognized that God did His part very well in the second birth, considering my total lack of faith and considering my very dark thoughts about Him. In fact, right after second daughter was born, I told a nurse I wanted to have another baby, I wanted to labor and birth again. She discouraged that idea. lol

Actually, God was incredibly loving and patient to not punish me for my honest beliefs about Him. Any human I know personally would have been swift to punish such insubordination, such heresy, such blasphemy as I thought and believed in my heart of hearts.

So, now, as I struggle with losing battles against darkness and wondering if it is even worth trying to fight for control of my own thoughts, my mind turns to this experience and I wonder what, if anything, it all means. I wonder if it was a covenant, - and if it was, was the covenant sealed by the shedding of my blood and by my incredible suffering. And if  so, what was God's part in it. What was it He was supposed to give?

God Has Not Deserted Us

I came across this comment on Google+ and got permission to post it as a guest blog.

Maybe it's not a test that you are failing, maybe you are being humbled. What is more humbling than losing all your teeth and feeling like you will never be "good enough" to see God?

I'm not calling you prideful, I'm just saying, well, this -- "And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them. Behold, I will show unto the Gentiles their weakness, and I will show unto them that faith, hope and charity bringeth unto me--the fountain of all righteousness." --Ether 12-27-28

Moroni wrote this right in the middle of that big sermon on faith. Faith always starts with weakness.

I think painful experiences are more likely to be humbling to build faith than tests to prove something. There is only one test and it is not about seeing if you can be a perfect person every day of your life. It is about trusting that whatever happens will turn to your good.

It is about taking blows to your self esteem because all of your teeth are falling out and you don't know if you'll ever find someone decent to marry.

It is about wondering how you can stay with a church that has gone so far astray that you wonder if there is anything to gain by staying with it.

It is about worrying every day that you are going to miss the boat and end up living in a cardboard box on the side of the road.

It is about taking your personalized doubts and fears and weaknesses and letting God lead you. Sometimes it feels like you are diving headfirst off a cliff, naked and blindfolded, but you have to trust that you will find somewhere to land, that it is not what it seems.

"Those who fear God are remembered, visited and blessed by Him. Those who had reason to be 'proud' of their status in mortality, the great ones of the day, dignitaries, presiding authorities, kings, rulers and magistrates 'he hath scattered' like dust. They will be put down from their mighty seats. In their place those of low degree will be exalted. Those who crave knowledge and are hungry to be filled with truth will not reject His messengers, and will be filled. This is so even if the greatest message of the day comes through an elderly woman, pregnant for the first time, and her lowly, still unmarried, pregnant cousin. Oh how wonderful are the workings of God! How little the praise and recognition of man matters! How foolish to men are the ways in which the Lord works in every generation! How easy it is to mistake social standing for God's favor, and to consider lowliness to mean insignificance! This God, who is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, surely has given us all sufficient warning to let us all know His ways are not, and never will be, man's ways." --Denver Snuffer, "Come Let Us Adore Him," pages 30-31

End of comment.

To my friend's comment, I would add this (that I read this morning in the same book before I read her comment):

From the widow's perspective, the judge from whom she needs relief is unjust. . . .  However, because of her persistence, the judge is finally persuaded to grant her request.

This story illustrates the difference between man's perception of God who appears indifferent, and God's greater wisdom in timing His answers to our prayers.

We judge God. We think He delays, ignores or refuses us. This parable is teaching us to pray continually anyway. No matter what our perspective is, we should persist. Petition God until at last He delivers you. Never relent. Never stop asking. Even if you believe God to be unjust, . . .  continue to petition Him. He does listen and He does answer. [pp 169-170]

All of God's disciples experience this struggle in submitting their will to God's. All of us experience the exasperation that comes from petitioning the "unjust judge" whose patience and timing are beyond us. All are tempted to complain that God is unnecessarily delaying an answer to our needs [emphasis mine]. All of us will finally come to realize that God has always intended to avenge His people who cry to Him day and night, even though He may bear with us a long time first.

Will men lose faith? Will they lose patience as they await the Lord's answer to their desperate pleas? He is showing us the struggle we will have in the last days before His return. Despite all He may have done to answers [sic] prayers before, it will seem He has abandoned those who are here waiting. Even though He has provided proof of His word to His disciples, His delay will not only try their faith, it will cause them to wonder if God is not this unjust judge who makes them wait. It will test them so completely the Lord asks whether at the Second Coming He will find faith left on the earth. It is a sobering question. It is a warning. Do not lose faith. He does listen. [Emphasis Denver Snuffer's]  . . .

The parable is designed to forewarn us. Being forewarned should prepare us. Above all, the parable should instruct us to never lose faith. . . . He will vindicate every word He has spoken. [pp 172-173]

Freedom to Choose

So, I've been thinking about freedom to choose. The adversary has hidden and covered up our freedom to choose, thus we are blind-sided by lies. Teachings of society, of government, of parents, of schools, of religion control us to varying degrees. Our own experiences and wounds teach us lies, put into us a lack of knowing how free to choose we really are.

For example, if I'm feeling negative about someone or something, I can choose to feel differently. If I choose to – Well, if I've been taught that some things just “are” -

like certain things (health-wise) cannot be healed

like childbirth has to hurt

like unassisted birth is dangerous (what did Eve do?)

like leaders are always right

like women should be subservient to men (or vice versa)

like life has to be painful

like we have a God-given mandate to condemn and reject those who sin differently than we do

like God is a harsh taskmaster

like we have to suffer because we can learn in no other way

like we understand the gospel better today than Joseph Smith did

like Joseph Smith lived polygamy but pretended not to

like we are humongously more intelligent than those who lived thousands of years ago

(and I could go on and on)

Well, if I believe all of that I just might not realize that all of those things are choices, not truths.

Who says I cannot humble my own self and learn God's ways without going through hell to learn and to become?

Who says that birth is inherently dangerous and painful?

Who says that I have to live the ways of Babylon, even while it surrounds me?

Who says I cannot be perfect in this life? Isn't the Atonement there to create perfection in us?

You can cite general authorities, medical authorities, scientific authorities, scriptures, and movie stars but that does not mean I have to believe you – or them. The only thing I should believe completely are the words spoken to me via the Holy Ghost. Even pure scripture can be misunderstood and misapplied.

We are supposed to be preparing to live in Zion, for heaven's sake! We should not be living as people have lived for thousands of years! The society we should be living in has perfect health. It has righteousness so perfect that Satan has no power. Everything we ask God to do, He does. We see Jesus often. In fact, no one says, “Know ye the Lord, because they all know him.”

No doctors. No lawyers. No police. No government officials. No church hierarchy that stands between us and God. No locks. No slave labor giving us cars, computers, and other toys. No fear in birth or in death.

We cannot magically and instantly become the type of person who can live in that society when the end of this era comes. By then, it is too late. Each of us who wants to be there has to be that person now! Otherwise, we will die with the wicked when that sort of living is ushered in by Christ and his angels. Now!

Change the paradigm and you've changed the person. Change the person and you've changed those around him/her (some may choose to leave because they are uncomfortable around a person with such an unusual and strange perception),

We are so steeped in Babylon that we don't even know that something else exists. And when it comes to our attention, we often reject it because such radical change makes us nervous; it frightens us.

I have seen people who are determined that, in the Millennium of Peace, there will be cars, computers, electricity, airplanes, and all of the other comforts and toys we have today. Who is going to be the slave labor for these things? Why would any of these things be necessary?

I submit that the non-Babylonian way to live is very simple. We get places by walking. If we need to travel a long distance, we go by Light (notice the words that sometimes accompany descriptions of seeing Jesus, Moroni, other angels). If we wear clothing at all, I expect it will be very simple – and easy enough for anyone to make. But, remember, we are supposed to be ultimately entering a garden in Eden state; they wore no clothing, and there is no mention of a house, either.

To our eyes, the ideal way to live may very well look extremely primitive. We might turn away because we refuse to believe in the absence of

money

razors

jewelry

vehicles

airplanes

fine clothing

fancy shoes

suits and ties

briefcases

electricity

fine buildings

formal schools of learning

formal, organized religion with lots of rules

computers

radios

washing machines

ipods

and so forth.

We are so steeped in Babylon that not only do we not have a clue that a better way exists, but if or when we see the other way, we often reject it out-of-hand. When are we going to turn to God with all of our hearts and souls and be willing to give up all we have and believe so that we may enter Zion? For myself, I am attempting to leave Babylon behind. I am actively doing all I can to open up my willingness to give up every Babylonian paradigm that is in me.

Pain in Childbirth?

Scripturally speaking, is there a warrant for believing pain in childbirth is inevitable? "In sorrow thou shalt bring forth children" and "in sorrow shalt thou eat [the food of the ground] all the days of thy life" [Genesis 3:16-17]. So, if it means women birth in agony, it follows that men should be in agony every time they take a bite of food and try to swallow it. Let's look at assorted versions of this scripture:

From the LDS King James Version:

16 Unto the ^awoman he said, I will greatly ^bmultiply thy ^csorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth ^dchildren; and thy desire shall be to thy ^ehusband, and he shall rule over thee. 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy ^awife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: ^bcursed is the ground for thy sake; in ^csorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

Take note of the footnote: It is Adam's footnote that says "sorrow" could also be translated "travail" or "pain".

Footnote 16c - HEB increase thy discomfort and thy size (i.e., in the condition and process of pregnancy)

Footnote 17c HEB travail, pain

- - -

Genesis 3:16-17 on lds.org has no footnote for Eve's "sorrow" and the footnote for Adam's "sorrow" is - HEB travail, pain

- - -

The Pearl of Great Price, which should be the best for LDS students to go by, says the following:

Moses 4:22-23:

22 Unto the woman, I, the Lord God, said: I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception. In ^asorrow thou shalt bring forth children, and thy desire shall be to thy ^bhusband, and he shall rule over thee. 23 And unto Adam, I, the Lord God, said: Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the fruit of the tree of which I commanded thee, saying—Thou shalt not eat of it, ^acursed shall be the ground for thy sake; in ^bsorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.

The footnotes for "sorrow" only refer one to Genesis and to the Topical Guide.

- - -

Apostolic Bible Polyglot w/Strong's Numbers:

(Gen 3:16) And^G2532 to the^G3588 woman^G1135 he said,^G2036 In multiplying^G4129 I will multiply^{G4129 G3588} your distresses,^{G3077 G1473} and^{G2532 G3588} your moanings.^{G4726 G1473} In^G1722 distresses^G3077 you will bear^G5088 children,^G5043 and^G2532 to^{G4314 G3588} your husband^{G435 G1473 G3588} your submission,^{G654.1 G1473} and^G2532 he^G1473 will dominate you.^{G1473 G2961}

(Gen 3:17) And to ^{G3588 G1161} Adam^G* he said,^G2036 Because^G3754 you hearkened to^G191 the^G3588 voice^{G5456 G3588} of your wife,^{G1135 G1473} and^G2532 ate^G2068 from^G575 the^G3588 tree^G3586 of which^G3739 I gave charge^G1781 to you, saying ,^G1473 This^G3778 alone^G3441 you are not^G3361 to eat^G2068 from^G575 it --^G1473 and you ate;^G2068 accursed^G1944 is the^G3588 land^G1093 among^{G1722 G3588} your works;^{G2041 G1473} in^G1722 distresses^G3077 you will eat^G2068 it^G1473 all^G3956 the^G3588 days^{G2250 G3588} of your life.^{G2222 G1473}

G3077 Distresses – lupè loo'-pay – Apparently a primary word; sadness: -grief, grievous, + grudgingly, heaviness, sorrow. Strong's Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries. Same meaning for both Adam and Eve.

- - -

Brenton's English Septuagint:

Gen 3:17 And to the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy pains and thy groanings; in pain thou shalt bring forth children, and thy submission shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Gen 3:18 And to Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened to the voice of thy wife, and eaten of the tree concerning which I charged thee of it only not to eat--of that thou hast eaten, cursed is the ground in thy labours, in pain shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.

- - -

Geneva Bible 1587:

Gen 3:16 Vnto the woman he said, I will greatly increase thy sorowes, and thy conceptions. In sorowe shalt thou bring foorth children, and thy desire shalbe subiect to thine husbande, and he shall rule ouer thee.

Gen 3:17 Also to Adam he said, Because thou hast obeyed the voyce of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, (whereof I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eate of it) cursed is the earth for thy sake: in sorowe shalt thou eate of it all the dayes of thy life.

- - -

King James Version 1611:

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorowe and thy conception. In sorow thou shalt bring forth children: and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and hee shall rule ouer thee.

Gen 3:17 And vnto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened vnto the voyce of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commaunded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eate of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake: in sorow shalt thou eate of it all the dayes of thy life.

There are newer versions. I tried to find what I thought would be closest to the original. Some newer ones say the word for Adam (sorrow) and the word for Eve (sorrow) are different; however, I believe that was changed because of the human culture's belief that childbearing should be much more painful than eating.

Question: What would our culture be like if someone had decided a few thousand years ago that it was the eating that would be painful and the childbirth that would be joyful?