Should we pray or join the fray?

This post is NOT about the current nonsense going on in the "remnant" movement even though the quotes are from a thread discussing that very thing a couple of years ago. The point I wish to make has zero to do with that. Zero to do with who is right and who is wrong in the present drama and trauma going on. (I’ve no horse in that race.)

The point is this: If you find yourself hating a group of people, or despising them, or think you are better than them, it might be a good idea to humble yourself, ask God where your own failings are, and pray for those you despise or hate.

Post by Silver Pie » Sat Mar 09, 2024 5:47 am

    Farmer wrote: Tue Feb 13, 2024 2:54 pm

    Yet again another example of the mess Denver has created with the “remnant” group. 

Denver didn't create the messes. People who profess to believe what he has taught are making the messes.

    from the periphery I see constant circumstances of bickering and ungodly behavior.

When you see constant bickering and ungodly behavior, you are only seeing the people making a fuss. There are others who are quietly going about their business, doing their best to always face God, and doing their best to allow Christ to save them. To judge every person in the movement by the idiocy, sins, bickering, etc. of those causing contention isn't really a smart thing to do (yet, it is what people do, isn't it?).


Post by Silver Pie » Sat Mar 09, 2024 5:57 am

    Farmer wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 6:47 pm

    The arrogance, in many respects, of this group even calling themselves the remnant. I have personally evolved my thinking of what the remnant even is, let alone who they are at least a dozen times in the last 10 to 15 years and I’m still not sure my current understanding is even correct. There is a great deal of assumption and self aggrandizement going on with these various groups of people who look to Denver as their light. 

I don't call myself a remnant. I objected to the idea, in fact - but more recently, I realized they are a remnant of the LDS Church (especially if you include all the factions that claim descent from Joseph Smith Jr). I still don't call myself a remnant. I have no label for myself.

And, while some do look to Denver as their light, he preached against it profusely in the ten lectures. Some set themselves up as a light. Others listen to what Denver has to say, but use the Lord, the Heavenly Parents, and the Holy Spirit as the light they should follow.


Post by Silver Pie » Sat Mar 09, 2024 6:07 am

    Farmer wrote: Tue Mar 05, 2024 7:22 pm

    Emphatically, I state, Priesthood only comes from the heavens. 

Of course it does. The certificate is only so a man can show another fellowship or person who desires baptism/sacrament that the group he came from believes he's honorable enough to bless the sacrament and perform baptisms.

You seem really upset by a group of people who aren't, near as I can figure, causing you any pain. Instead of pointing fingers and b*ching about them, wouldn't a better use of your time be to look at yourself and see where the beams are in your own eyes, and where you might improve so that you can stand in the presence of God without fear or agony (whether in this life when he shows up, or in the next when he judges)?

Or you could pray for all the parties involved in this mess - those who are hurling insults, those who are threatening people, those who are pretending to be something they are not, and those who are the victims in all of that. That would be better than doing your part in spreading the contention on the internet - unless, of course, you get your jollies by being appalled and pointing fingers at other people's pain and anger, as you become part of the problem yourself instead of part of the solution.


Post by Silver Pie » Sat Mar 09, 2024 6:13 am

    Wolfwoman wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 12:46 pm

    Regarding priesthood: of course Denver believes that women can have an association with Heaven. That has been a big thing that he has taught. The thing about men having priesthood and women sustaining them in that has to do with Genesis 3:16. Due to conditions of the fall, men are to “rule” over women. This has to do with men being priests and leaders in the religious community and with them performing ordinances (law of Moses ordinances back in the day and baptism and sacrament today). He asked the Lord if women could hold priesthood and the Lord told him no. That’s not going to happen until the millennium. So he set up the system of women sustaining men in the priesthood which also harkens back to the original order of God where the mother chose who received the birthright blessing (see Isaac and Rebekah and their sons Esau and Jacob). You don’t have to believe it, but the reasoning is that he got it from the Lord himself. 

Yep. And he specified that it was "public ordinances" (like baptism and blessing the sacrament) that women weren't supposed to do.

Women can give blessings to family and friends. I know because I've done it (long before Denver showed up on the scene) and God honored that by causing the blessings to be fulfilled. Women also have a fellowship with heaven, every bit as real as any man has in his fellowship with heaven.


Post by Silver Pie » Sat Mar 09, 2024 1:21 pm

Since I haven't been coming to this site often lately and may not be back for another month, I want to clarify my last comment to Farmer (love the name by the way!). I was not trying to be accusatory toward them. My point is this: I expect we are all human . . . . Many or most of us view ourselves as followers of Christ, and from what I've seen of Farmer's posts, s/he is no exception.

As those who are following Christ - or trying to to the best of our abilities - I believe it behooves us to pray for fellow followers of Christ who are obviously struggling to be Christlike. It doesn't matter if they don't believe the faction we follow. It doesn't matter if they are "apostate" from the religion we hold dear. It doesn't matter if they are Mormon or CoJCoLDS or Catholic or Lutheran or Baptist or Holy Roller or any other label, or no label at all. It doesn't matter if we don't like the man (or woman) they believe speaks for God.

What matters is that we come to a unity of the faith, even if our doctrines and beliefs differ. Our unity should be in our prayers and concerns for each other (not in being appalled or angry because we don't like that group for whatever reason).

Also, to be clear, I view myself as scum, unworthy of the great mercy our Lord has shown to me (to all of us) - that he should have suffered in Gethsemane and died on the cross for someone as unprofitable and unworthy as me boggles my mind. It is difficult to accept this great gift he so freely gives to us. Just so you know that I'm not coming from some pretended attitude of being better than anyone here.

Thoughts that came about as a result of the storm Helene

 And plagues shall go forth, and they shall not be taken from the earth until I have completed my work, which shall be cut short in righteousness, until all shall know me who remain, even from the least unto the greatest, and shall be filled with the knowledge of the Lord, and shall see eye to eye, and shall lift up their voice, and with the voice together sing . . . .

T&C 88:7 - D&C 84:97

The earth surely seems to be in commotion. All sorts of things happening that are not good. I've been seeing a lot in regards to the decimation and loss of life in the southeastern United States. And I'm seeing some things I haven't seen before.

First: I have not seen such devastation in my lifetime as has happened there.

Second: I am seeing lots of calls for prayers from the victims and those who care about them. "If you can help with supplies, please do so, and if you can't, please pray for us."

Third: As seems typical, a certain alphabet agency is hindering people from helping - but, this time, people are finding ways around them. I mean physically getting around them. I think it's a combination of compassion, determination, and God's help.

Fourth: The downplaying in the media (I don't blame them; they are only as good as the info they're fed) is offset by the fact that individuals own cell phones. Power may have been out (and is still out in many places), but some people have generators. Some people have some electricity. Some people can connect to satellite internet (think Starlink), which made it possible for others to contact people outside the devastated area. And, people in the areas are reporting a whole lot more death than we have been told.

I can give nothing physically to help these people, but I can pray. And I have been praying most sincerely, fervently, with single-mindedness. I have been praying for the people who are suffering, that they get the relief they so desperately need, and that they are comforted by God and angels and that their hearts are turned to rely on God. I have been praying that God bless the people who are determined to get needed supplies in, that God fight their battles like he did so many times with the Nephites against the Lamanites. And, this morning, I felt such incredible power in my prayers, sobbing in sorrow for the suffering and also sobbing in joy and gratitude for those stepping up to give concrete help in spite of the obstacles. And I believe that the power I felt came and comes from the thousands (perhaps even millions) of other people praying the same prayers.

I have also prayed that God give this country (and Canada, if I'm being honest) another chance. That he put in whatever candidate that he sees can be humble and teachable, and that God will protect (or continue to protect, if it is Trump, as many seem to think he's God's man) and help that person to live in God instead of his own ego or blindness and fears, so that he can be a factor in giving us more time to truly repent.

 I have begged God to make the Covenant of Christ (modern-day translation of the Book of Mormon, for those who don't know) flood this country, then flood Canada and the rest of the world, so that another honest chance at repentance can be given

 There is no scripture, anywhere, that says only a tiny amount righteous people are going to be alive when the Lord comes again. In fact, reading Jacob's retelling of the parable of the olive tree leads me to believe that there will (or could be) a great many people who are good fruit (the wicked/bad fruit are destroyed by degrees, so that the good fruit can become strong). I'm talking about the whole planet here. Also, Nephi (son of Lehi, in the Book of Mormon/Covenant of Christ) saw many places all over the planet where the people were armed with righteousness and God's glory.

So, let's take heart. Let's join together in faith, whoever you are, wherever you are, whatever faith you might or might not espouse. Let's join together in God. Let's let this ground roots movement of loving and caring for others take root in our own hearts and minds. Let us repent in sackcloth and ashes so that the whole of America can become Zion, so that the whole of Earth can become united in compassion and caring and love.

And let us be faithful to God while the cleansing is taking place, even while we mourn for those innocents who may be taken in the process. Surely, those who are not worthy of destruction will be claimed by angels and taken to God's bosom if they die in what has happened and what will happen.

Let us pray for the Power of God to be with us, as well as with those who are presently doing their best to provide relief. Let us pray with deepest humility and sincerity that we are no longer blinded by pride or devils or darkness. Let us cast aside all we think makes us more enlightened or better than others. Compared to God, all of us are idiot fools who know zilch.

Please! I pray for our (this earth's) collective repentance and mighty change of heart, that we face toward God and be filled with God's power, that God protect us with his power as we struggle to overcome the vast wickedness that is determined to bring this country (USA) to its knees to drown in the mire, and as we struggle to overcome the vast wickedness that has infested every country on this planet, as if the planet were a garbage dump and those controlling it were rats, spreading disease and death with everything they touch.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pray for . . .

the political prisoners in the U.S.A. and Canada - and for the women in Iran and other countries who are being beaten, arrested, and even killed if they show their faces or if their heads are uncovered.

Some things I cannot personally change, but I think if enough people pray for something, things can change, because God is powerful.

I am praying, and I'm also designating November 1st (one week from this writing) as an international day of prayer and fasting for these groups.

If you so desire, I would love for you to join me.